Kol Yisrael Radio Interview: Follow-up to Pollards In Poverty

Kol Yisrael Radio (Reshet Bet) Interview with Esther Pollard

Host: Yifat Levy
Originally Aired in Hebrew - August 14, 2003

Translated by J4JP - Released in English October 16, 2003

J4JP Preface: Pollard And the Current Prisoner Exchange

Comments made by Esther Pollard in this interview, which originally aired some time ago, echo the numerous alarms she and Jonathan have tried to sound over the years. That Israel's sustained betrayal and abandonment of Jonathan Pollard undoubtedly mirrors precisely what the Government is doing, or not doing, behind-the-scenes for our MIAs and captives whose situations are far less visible than Pollard's. The Pollards have long warned that unless the Government were held to account for its failure to fulfill its obligations to its agent, Jonathan Pollard, then Government would be capable of betraying any Israeli who falls captive. Some of their worst fears appear to have been realized lately.

Recently, as part of a "Prisoner Exchange" with Hezbollah, Israel agreed to free terrorist chieftains Sheik Obeid and Dirani, as well as 400 terrorists and security prisoners in exchange for 1 Israeli "businessman" and the remains of 3 soldiers who were abducted and murdered by Arabs. Dirani was the captor of Israeli airman Ron Arad, who has been MIA for 17 years. A newly-released report indicates that Ron Arad is believed to be alive though paralyzed, and held captive in prison in an Arab country. Prime Minister Sharon told Arad's 18 year old daughter - she has not seen her father for 17 years - that he is determined to free her father's captor and tormentor, Dirani, WITHOUT any demand for the release of Ron Arad! Not even a demand for proof of life, or information. Nothing! Arad's daughter was not comforted by the PM's promises: "We'll get your father some other time." No doubt she did not believe him. Nor do we.

Another one who does not believe Sharon is Azzam Azzam, an Israeli Druse unjustly imprisoned in Egypt. This week Sharon sent Minister Dani Naveh to visit Azzam Azzam. Naveh brought a letter from Sharon urging Azzam to be of good cheer; that Israel is "continuing to work" to secure his release. Naveh also brought Azzam Azzam the news that he is NOT going to be included in the prisoner release with Hezbollah, even though Israel plans to release Egyptian prisoners as part of the deal!

The Government of Israel has broken every single promise it ever made to Jonathan Pollard both in court and privately. Israel was complicit in his prosecution and continues to this day to be complicit in his interminable incarceration under harsh conditions. It has postured publicly for years as if it were assisting Jonathan Pollard, while in fact sabotaging and undermining every opportunity to secure his release and abandoning Jonathan morally, legally, financially, and medically for nearly 2 decades. In the interview that follows, Esther Pollard's words were prescient as she reminds listeners that the Government of Israel has a social contract with those that serve the State, and when the Government abrogates that contract with even one of her agents, all of those who serve her are in jeopardy. The interview originally aired in Hebrew on Israel's National Radio Channel 2 , Kol Yisrael.

Transcript of Interview: Follow-up to Pollards In Poverty

Y. LEVY:

A report in this morning's Ma'ariv Newspaper indicates that Esther Pollard, wife of Jonathan Pollard, has been reduced to poverty and is living from hand to mouth. Shalom to you, Esther.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Shalom!

Y. LEVY:

Were you surprised by the article in the paper today?

ESTHER POLLARD:

No. We agreed to allow the issue of our financial distress to be publicized, only in order to allow the nation to see and understand the extent to which Jonathan has been abandoned by the Government. It is not that we particularly wanted to publicize this issue and it is certainly not because we are asking for money. All we want is Jonathan home. That is all.

Y. LEVY:

And the Government is not forthcoming?

ESTHER POLLARD:

The Government has quite simply abandoned Jonathan and continues to sabotage and undermine every opportunity to secure his release. The government is not doing a single thing to seek Jonathan's release even though his release was PROMISED to us. Promised to us by the US over and over again!

Y. LEVY:

Promised to us?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Yes. Promised to us at the Wye Summit. We do not have to pay for it again. We do not have to negotiate it again. We simply have to collect what is owed to us.

Y. LEVY:

It looks like the abandonment certainly is great, and as we said, this is expressed in the article today as reflected in your living conditions and your lifestyle, Esther.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Yes, it is terrible

Y. LEVY:

For example you do not have a home. You live in a room in someone else's house. Is that true?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Yes. The lady I live with is a widow. She heard about our extreme financial distress and she offered me a room in her house.

Y. LEVY:

What about other State benefits, does Israel help you, the wife of an Israel agent, in any way?

ESTHER POLLARD:

No. Nothing. I do not even have Kupat Cholim (health care benefits). I have nothing

Y. LEVY:

So if you get sick and let's say you have a serious disease, then you have to fly to Canada?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Yes. That is exactly what I am doing this week. I am flying to Canada briefly to get medical attention. From there I will fly to see Jonathan in the US.

Y. LEVY:

Do you expect the State to support you financially?

ESTHER POLLARD:

The issue is, it is not about what I expect. I do not expect anything. HOWEVER, Jonathan is an Israeli agent; the State recognized him as an agent. And this was not something new, it was simply the truth. And to gain this recognition we had to take the Government to court to force them to stop lying and to tell the truth: that Jonathan Pollard was an Israeli agent. So that is what they did. They granted him official recognition as an agent and they also wrote to the court acknowledging their obligations towards him.

Y. LEVY:

Obligations.

ESTHER POLLARD:

There is something that is called a social contract. Every country that sends soldiers or agents out into the field is obliged to take care of them and to discharge all of its obligations to them in the event that they are taken captive. In point of fact, my husband is an agent in captivity.

Y. LEVY:

So you expect that the Government of Israel should fulfill this "social contract" for Jonathan and you?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Again, it is not what I expect. It is what the law expects of the Government; it is what society expects. If the Government fails to live up to its obligations towards one Israeli agent, what then can we expect for the rest of her agents? If the Government gets to pick and choose which agents it will rescue and care for and which ones it will trash and dump, then no agent, indeed no soldier can serve the country with confidence and security.

Y. LEVY:

By the way, the Department of Defense said today that they decided to give you a monthly stipend.

ESTHER POLLARD:

It is not true.

Y. LEVY:

Not true?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Yesterday when IDF Radio reporters asked the Prime Minister's Office about support for us they were directed to the Defense Ministry and the Defense Ministry directed them right back to the Prime Minister's office. Today they suddenly figured out what to tell reporters so today you get another story, as if they suddenly decide to give us a stipend. They pulled a stunt like this in the past as well, and then blamed us, as if it were our own fault, as if there were something we should have done and did not do so they are not supporting us. What nonsense!

Y. LEVY:

Well, the Ministry of Defense does claim that you have to submit a list of requests and receipts etc.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Oh really. Just the way that Azzam Azzam did? Or maybe Tennenbaum submitted receipts? And the other families of captives? Give me a break! My husband is an Israeli agent. Both morally and legally, the Government owes him. In court, the Government committed itself in writing to take care of us. My husband is in captivity, not summer camp!

Y. LEVY:

True.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Furthermore, do we need to tell them how much it costs to eat for a week? Or how much a pair of shoes cost? In other words, the very least that is owed to an Israeli agent in captivity - the minimum of the minimum-is his salary, with no questions and no strings attached. But not a cent has been offered nor has there been a cent forthcoming.

Pardon me, I must once again stress, that I could not care less about the money and we are not asking for any money. I don't even care about living in poverty - all that I care about is getting my husband home. That is all I want. I want him home. Let the Government of Israel do what they promised to do, let them do what they are obliged to do, to work as assiduously for his release as they have committed to do, something they promised but are not doing at all.

Y. LEVY:

They are not working for his release?

ESTHER POLLARD:

We know with utter certainty that the Government is doing absolutely nothing towards seeking Jonathan's release, other than to sabotage it. Do you know about the petition?

Y. LEVY:

Tell me about it.

ESTHER POLLARD:

It was a petition to George Bush to free my husband, signed by 112 Members of Knesset...

Y. LEVY:

Yes.

ESTHER POLLARD:

It is an historic document! In the history of the State of Israel there has never been another petition on any other issue that was endorsed in writing by 112 Members of Knesset - every single member of every single Jewish faction including Druse and Arabs in those factions! Not even the Peace Treaty with Jordan enjoyed as many signatures! And what did Sharon do with this historic petition? He left it at home! He never even bothered to deny that he had dumped it at home. When he was asked about this by the media his office replied that the Prime Minister had "more important issues" to discuss in Washington. Tell me, what could be more important than the fate of an Israeli agent in captivity for 18 years? ....By the way do you know what it was that Jonathan did for Israel?

Y. LEVY:

According to the newspapers, he spied. He spied on behalf of Israel.

ESTHER POLLARD:

But what did he do? What did he do that was so terrible? I can tell you.

Y. LEVY:

What did he do?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Do you have a gas mask?

Y. LEVY:

A gas mask? Yes.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Did you ever sit in a sealed room while the nation was under threat of attack?

Y. LEVY:

Yes. In 1991.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Well, it was thanks to Jonathan that Israel knew about the threat from Iraq. It was because of Jonathan that Israel changed its entire civil defense plan. It was thanks to Jonathan that Israel knew to prepare gas masks and sealed rooms and chemical antidote kits for all of her citizens. His reward for that was to be betrayed and abandoned by Israel for 18 years now.

Y. LEVY:

Israel is, in fact, a nation that is known for taking care of its own. For rescuing them. For example the agents that were rescued in Jordan even though it mean freeing (terrorist chief) Sheik Yassin. How do you explain that davka in the case of Jonathan Pollard, they do not want to help?

ESTHER POLLARD:

It is indeed stunning. It appears, that our leaders, and I say "leaders" in quotation marks, do not have clear consciences. Why is that? I cannot answer that question, only they can. One of the things that is very obvious though is that they were all personally involved in the Pollard affair. All of them including Sharon, Peres, Barak and a number of others. All of them were involved. But that is an open secret, the whole world knows that they were involved, so there is no reason to fear anymore because everyone knows it.

Y. LEVY:

Perhaps it is just clear to everyone that the United States is not willing, under any circumstances, in any way, at any time and for any reason, ever to free Jonathan.

ESTHER POLLARD:

That is ridiculous. It simply not the case. We have sources, very good sources in high places in Washington, who assure us that the root of the problem is quite simply that Israel does not want Jonathan and has made it quite clear to Washington that they can do as they please with him. Look, here we are freeing prisoners again, prisoners with blood on their hands, prisoners who are going to go out and murder more Israelis, and why do we do it? Because the Unites States asked us to. For example quite recently we freed the " fridge bomber" a man who was responsible for the deaths of 14 Israeli citizens and the wounding of scores of others. He was sitting in prison serving 3 life sentences, not one! The US asked us to release him and so we did. Yet all we are asking for is one Israeli agent who never hurt anybody and whose release was PROMISED to us by the US!

Y. LEVY:

So...

ESTHER POLLARD:

Tell me, isn't it true that whenever we make an agreement, even if a new Prime Minister comes to power and does not particularly agree with that agreement, for example the Oslo Accords, don't we always honor the agreement anyway, because a deal is a deal?

Y. LEVY:

Of course.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Well, that is the case here as well. Prime Minister Netanyahu secured the release of Jonathan Pollard as a commitment from President Bill Clinton. The promise that was made was not between 2 individuals but between two nations - a clear commitment from the US to Israel to release Jonathan Pollard. End of story. However, when our Prime Minister goes to Washington and takes the petition for the release of Jonathan Pollard signed by 112 MKs and dumps it in the trash before he even leaves the Israel, the message is already clear.

Y. LEVY:

How many years does Jonathan have?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Life. A life sentence. There is no end.

Y. LEVY:

(silent)

ESTHER POLLARD:

You know, Israel is known throughout the world as being a nation that assists others. Every time there is a tragedy or a disaster anywhere in the world, Israel is the first nation to rush to the scene with doctors and medical supplies, and whatever is needed. Yet here, we are speaking of the plight of an Israeli agent in peril for 18 years who gets nothing. No help at all. They are not working towards his release at all, and they do not even offer him any assistance at all.

Y. LEVY:

What do you make of that?

ESTHER POLLARD:

What it should be telling us all, is how dangerous this is for Israeli society and for our nation at large.

Y. LEVY:

Why is that?

ESTHER POLLARD:

Jonathan's situation is transparent. The public knows what is going on with him and what is happening to him and what Israel is not doing for him. His case is a window on what is undoubtedly going on - or should I say not going on- with those whose cases are not visible and not transparent, such as our MIAs and the rest of our captives. If this is the way the Government of Israel permits itself to behave towards an agent in captivity whose case is so visible, then we truly fear for our MIAs and captives. Israel has made too many deals, freed too many murderers and terrorists. The Government has put far too much of its attention into sending the murderers home, instead of putting it into bringing out boys home.

Y. LEVY:

Esther, I thank you very much for speaking with us.

ESTHER POLLARD:

Thank you.
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